Followed By Mercy

The Forgotten Heart of Christ: Meekness in a World of Striving

• W. Austin Gardner

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What if rest wasn’t about doing less, but about being with the right Teacher? In Matthew 11, Jesus gives the only self-description of His heart in the whole Bible: “I am meek and lowly.” And in the same breath, He invites us to take His yoke and find rest for our souls.


In Jesus’ day, a rabbi’s “yoke” meant his interpretation of the law—a list of rules to follow. But Jesus offers something radically different. His yoke isn’t about religious performance but relationship. He doesn’t pile on more requirements. He invites you closer to Himself.


This conversation explores what it means to trade our exhausting cycle of self-striving for the rest that comes from walking with the One who is gentle and humble in heart. We’ll see how God has always revealed Himself as merciful and gracious—from His encounter with Moses on Sinai, to Jesus washing the feet of His disciples, even the one who would betray Him.
When you live near Jesus, you begin to resemble Him, not by trying harder, but simply by being with Him. Like a child who naturally picks up their parent’s mannerisms, proximity changes you.


If you’re tired of carrying the weight of religion, if harsh images of God have hurt you, or if you’ve been striving to earn what He already gives freely, this episode is an invitation. Discover the heart of Christ, and the freedom of being yoked to the One who is gentle and accessible.


I am joined by Chris Gardner, David Gardner, and Robert Canfield

Thanks for listening. Find us on YouTube, Substack, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.

Austin Gardner:

Well, I'm excited to welcome all of you to, followed by Mercy. This will be the most unique podcast we've done since we started. I'm joined by three of my best friends Robert Canfield, and then my two sons, chris and David, and we're sitting around, we're discussing with you today and just chewing the fat over Matthew, where Jesus said in chapter 11, take my yoke upon you, come learn of me, for I am meek and lowly in spirit, and I'm afraid I think that too often, very few people really work at learning about Jesus. We are almost afraid of him, I think, because he is so nice, and so let me just let these guys greet you first, and then we will start up a conversation. Go ahead, david.

David Gardner:

Hello, I'm David.

Chris Gardner:

These guys are really funny this is Chris excited to be sharing this passage today, Looking forward to it.

Robert Canfield:

Hello out there. This is Robert Canfield. It's a pleasure to be on here and talking with my best good friends in the whole wide world.

Austin Gardner:

All right, so we'll start there. Chris, you just made a comment about how rich the passage was, so I want you to crank it up and tell us something.

Chris Gardner:

I love you know there's two imperative verbs in there. He's basically saying hey in verse 28,. I love it. He starts off and he goes hey, come to me if you are, if you all you that labor and are heavy laden and you know, I don't know who in this world does not consider that to be where they're at now we live in a world with constant information and everything. And then he goes after you're going to come to me. He says I want to give you rest.

Chris Gardner:

And then he says something that seems almost opposite of rest. He says hey, I want to give you rest, so take my yoke. You know a yoke. We look at a yoke as something that is a burden, that is something that ties a person down. But he says take my yoke upon you and learn of me. And so that's going to change our view of the yoke when we take that and start learning of him.

Chris Gardner:

Because what we learn in this passage are some pretty powerful things. One of the things we learn is that rest isn't the absence of work, it's the presence of the right teacher. And so what he's saying is listen, understand that I am the one that you're supposed to pay attention to. You are supposed to be yoked to me, and when you do, that does not give you a list of things to do. It provides the rest that you have been looking for.

Chris Gardner:

In the social media age that we work in, you're going to be scrolling through stuff and you'll look at it and it's a hey, I'm not a good mom, I'm not a perfect mom, I'm not a perfect dad, because on this video I saw or I'm not a great preacher, because on this I saw there's a yoke that is constantly placed on us in this information age we live in. But rest isn't the absence of work, it's the presence of the right teacher, and so, um, anyway, I I would say one other quote that I love about this passage is this Jesus doesn't just save us from sin, he saves us from self-striving. He doesn't just save us from sin, he saves us from self-striving. Yes, you're saved from sin but you're also saved.

Austin Gardner:

That's what you mean by self-striving.

Chris Gardner:

We always think we have to do one more thing to be okay. We always think we've got to do one more thing, and what he's saying is this we don't think God loves us as we are.

Chris Gardner:

No, not at all. If we want to be loved, we've got to do, we've got to produce. We have our quarterly review with our Father in Heaven that says you didn't do good, check here X. With our father in heaven that says you didn't do good, check here X. Here you got to do better. That's kind of the view of our father. That's so messed up. The truth of the matter is he looks at us and he says I love you, I gave my life for you and I want you to learn that from me and you'll learn that as you take on a yoke, a yoke of presence with him. So I don't know that. Some good stuff to start with. But I'll pass this mic over here to David now, because he'll have some great stuff to say.

David Gardner:

No, that's. One of the interesting things is that this is one of the really only passages, that where Jesus, god, describes his own heart. And so the reason that his yoke is easy, his burden is light, the reason that he says to come to him to take a yoke, is because of his treatment of us. So he's meek. Meekness is gentleness, kindness, sweetness, tenderness and lowly in heart. And so he's not only gentle and kind, though he's the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, he's also lowly in heart. And so he's not only gentle and kind, though he's the king of kings and lord of lords, he's also lowly in heart, which means that he is accessible. Kings are far away, kings are elevated, kings are distant, but people that are lowly in heart are people that are accessible, and so Jesus meets us where we're at, and he is lowly in heart, meaning that we can approach him, we can be close to him, and so we're talking about us as pastors and Sunday school teachers and Christian leaders.

Austin Gardner:

He said learn of me, so take us down that road. Just a second.

David Gardner:

And I think that's the point of him saying come, learn of me. Is that this is who I am, so take us down that road. Just a second. In today's society and culture is that you know leadership is emphasized. And leadership you know worldly leadership can emphasize. You know power, dominion, authority. You know worldly leadership can emphasize these. You know characteristics, but I don't think any type of leadership would be emphasized in be meek, be lowly, be accessible to those around you. And so Jesus says come to me, learn of me. This is the type of shepherd that I am.

Austin Gardner:

I think sometimes preachers like to, I mean people even think I want a preacher that kicks hard against sin.

David Gardner:

Yeah, that's interesting. Every time that I preach, you know, any message that might even be taken, you know, rough or, as you know, very confrontational. I always have at least one church member that goes, man, that was a good message. We need more of that. You know, they don't necessarily like the gentle stuff because I don't think they find it useful. They want to be, you know, challenged and pushed, but when you see Jesus he's meek and lowly in heart and that means that he can confront sin, he can confront Pharisees, he can confront religious leaders and be quite rough, but even then he's being meek and lowly in heart.

Austin Gardner:

All right, robert. What have you like to add into all of that?

Robert Canfield:

Talk about learning of them. I guess I'm just. I was read through this chapter, chapter 11. So, like John Baptist is in prison, he sends his disciples there and they come and ask Jesus, you know, are we looking for somebody else? And then Jesus is like, look at all the stuff I've done, what'd you come out here somebody else? And then Jesus is like, look at all this stuff I've done, what'd you come out here to see? And then he goes and he makes these statements.

Robert Canfield:

He says but where unto shall I liken this generation? It's like children sitting in the markets and calling unto their fellows and saying we've piped unto you and you haven't danced. We've mourned unto you and you haven't lamented for John. He came neither eating or drinking, and they said that he had a devil. The son of man comes eating and drinking and they said, behold, look this, this guy's glutton. He's a winebibber, he's a friend of publicans. And he says just look at my deeds. And that's going to justify it. He says at the end, he says but wisdom is justified in her children.

Robert Canfield:

And then he goes in and he like starts chiding them. He doesn't chide them, but he's talking to the people. He starts talking to these cities. It's all in the same passages. He starts saying woe to you, woe there in Chorazin, and he's talking about what he's doing and what, what, what, what, what, the works that Christ has done. And then he goes and he says learn of me, for I am meek and lowly.

Robert Canfield:

And as I'm looking through this and I'm trying to see the reason and the purpose in all this, is that Jesus was talking to a group of people and he was demonstrating, he was showing his kingdom and a lot of times when we think a person in leadership, like what was already stated, is a person that is very organized, very in control. But Jesus was talking about what he was doing and it was like a big party where he was at. That's what he was saying. He said you guys say that I'm a fat, I'm hanging out with guys that are glutton, I'm hanging out with partiers and sinners, and what he was really trying to get at was is that? I mean, people's lives were literally being changed in this, and his, his demeanor, and his, his personality, his character, is that of one that wants to enjoy and not be burdensome, if that makes sense, and that's what that the end of that, that verse, verse 28,. He says come into me all your labored and heavy laden. And he's like there's a current system in the world right now that's that's causing a lot of pressure and it's causing a lot of trouble and it's causing a lot of anxiety amongst people. And he says I want you to learn of me, because where Jesus is, there's peace. And he is meek, he's gentle, he's not harsh, he's not cruel, he's not looking to destroy and hurt people, he's looking to lift people's up.

Robert Canfield:

I love that song. He's the lifter of my head. That means he's bringing our head up. Where sin brought down shame and where everyone's looking for this, I guess, system where they can get beat up or something like that and they have to put their head down and they have to walk around in shame. Jesus is the lifter of our head and, um, he, just, he, just. He's that gentle, he's that laid back. He is not the high guy that people are looking for, he is just the, the humble guy. That's. That's, that's like a friend that you have a good time with. And I don't think we think Jesus is that, because whenever you're around those friends that you can just be normal with and be with and just they know that they care about you, no matter what. I mean you're at peace, but when you're around that other person that's looking to condemn and judge, I mean that's when you get like I got to act and toe a certain way.

Austin Gardner:

I think that one of the most beautiful things is what you just mentioned, that it's not a classroom, it's a relationship. It's not a program, it's a person. So Jesus isn't saying come, sit down here and be my disciples. He's saying come, walk with me, live with me. I don't want you to memorize facts. I want you to know my heart. I want you to know how I am. I'm not giving you a self-help program. I'm not giving you a religious formula. I want you to know me, chris.

Chris Gardner:

It's hard. There's a couple of passages that come to mind when we're talking about this, the command of John 15,. A lot of people take it as hey, look at fruit, look at fruit, look at fruit. But that's not what it is at all. It's all about abiding, and so we learn here that we don't succeed by striving, we succeed by abiding, and so it's about literally our presence with him, not our performance, for him is what grows us in our Christian walk, and that doesn't mean there's not going to be fruit.

Austin Gardner:

People turn abiding into work. Yeah, abiding is a work. That's not correct. Go ahead and explain what abiding is.

Chris Gardner:

Abiding is staying and, by the way, the branches don't do anything to abide.

Austin Gardner:

And they don't sit around going. I got to work at it and abide. Yeah at all.

Chris Gardner:

Did I read my three chapters today of the Bible? That's not at all what they're sitting there going. They're going. Man, what a precious thing that I get so much from that which I abide in. And the other passage that I love looking at, and I think that needs to accompany here, is Psalm 25. It says verse 4, it says Show me thy ways, o Lord, teach me thy paths, and I believe that when he's saying that this is something that's caught, not taught. And how do you catch it? Well, you catch it in a yoke, take his yoke upon, decide you're going to just be with him and love him and be close to him. And don't worry. There's things that I do nowadays and when I do them nobody doubts that I'm my father's son, uh-oh yeah.

Chris Gardner:

And so it doesn't matter what you do, where you go, you are, hey, chris, you are your father's son. Why? Because I'm 50 years old now. That didn't feel good to say that, but I'm 50 years old now, but at the age of 50, I've spent more time out of the house than I have in the house by a long shot. But I'm telling you, no matter where I'm at, people go. Wow, he's his father's son. And in the same way, we have to understand, we catch. Things are caught, not necessarily even taught. We think if we spend more time in Logos, bible software, if we spend more time in the scriptures and we have this list of what we think are God's demands, god doesn't demand that of us. When you have proximity to him and not performance for him, your proximity will just automatically create in you a heart after His and will change everything about the way that you live your life.

Robert Canfield:

It's funny that you say just spending time with Him, because Jesus, in the same passage, in that same paragraph, he talks about how God, the Father, who is Lord in heaven and earth, he said he has hid things from the wise and the prudent. Like Jesus is talking to a group of people here and he's letting them know that the people that that have their own systematized disciplines in order to figure out the truth and stuff like that. He says God's hid it to you, but he's actually revealed it to little babes and like babes can't really do anything except for spend time and and and and rely on their parents. And it's kind of like what you just said with the abiding in the vine and we're the vine, he's the branch or we're the branches. How's that go?

Austin Gardner:

Yeah, I'm the vine, you're the branches, that's good, here we are talking about these passages and you can't quote it. Come on.

Robert Canfield:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jump in here, john 15, whatever. But yeah, I think that's exactly what Jesus is saying. It's God, he hid stuff from those people that had the wise and the prudent, the ones that were wise in their own mind. They had their own systematized disciplines. And he's like yeah, I'm not revealing that to you, I'm revealing it to babes. They're the better strivers.

Austin Gardner:

One of the things I noticed about the people that Jesus most rejects. They're so much like what I have been so much of my life. It's always about I'm doing better than you, and the way I decide how well I'm doing, even in abiding, is I abide better than you? Maybe I don't abide all I ought to abide. I abide better than you do, and so I mean I read more Bible, I knock on more doors, I preach more times. So I'm really abiding, I give more.

Robert Canfield:

I do this, I do that, I withstand from things.

Austin Gardner:

And I think that becomes Jesus saying here come learn of me, stop learning of the Pharisees.

Chris Gardner:

And what I love. The cultural context of this is that rabbis used yoke to mean their interpretation of the law. So when they were talking about taking a yoke upon you, it was like, hey, here's all of the rules and here's all of the interpretation. Hey, take this yoke upon you, because I know the truth and I am following the truth, and if you'll just do all of these things, jesus offers an interpretation that is so countercultural.

Austin Gardner:

My way of doing it ain't their way of doing it.

Chris Gardner:

It's so countercultural, it's like a 180. So Jesus offers his interpretation. His interpretation says this Listen, this is not more rules, this is more relationship. I want you close to me. I love you. I'm about to go on a vacation with my wife and we're going to drive my car to me. I love you. I'm about to go on a vacation with my wife and we're going to drive my car to Texas. It's 15 hour drive. You say, why would you do that? I get to sit in a car with the woman that I love with all of my heart and we just get to talk for 15 hours, spend time with each other. We don't have much of that. We have children at home, we have friends of our children at the house. There's always things going back and forth. I told her. I said we're going to turn our phone off for 10 hours while we're driving out there. We're just going to drive and not even care.

Chris Gardner:

I don't know if we believe you're going to do that, yeah, we'll see if I do it or not, but Jesus' interpretation says this you hear, hey, here's a new list of rules. When I was growing up, I used to think I was so holy because I obeyed these rules. And then I would hear somebody that had one rule that I didn't. I was like, oh man, I need to add that one to my list.

Austin Gardner:

Or they're a legalist.

Chris Gardner:

Well, honestly, I don't even ever think they were a legalist. I thought, man, I need to be more like them. And so, oh, these people didn't do this, that person didn't do this, so I would. As I was traveling as a young man through all these churches, I had a list of 73 things, and then, oh, you forgot these two and you'd add two more. That was what the rabbis did.

Chris Gardner:

And Jesus says I want to use their same vernacular, I want to use their same words, but when I say the yoke, what I want you to understand that yoke is that yoke is hey, I'm with you in the good and the bad. Our marriage vows, I'm with you in the good and the bad. I'm with you no matter what comes your way. So his interpretation is this it's more about relationship than it is anything else. And so I believe our common mistake is we try and share the yoke with him while we drag our own yoke. And his invitation is this drop everything you've got, because I didn't give it to you, and come join me in my yoke. And what he's saying is the whole shepherd, the Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want. I don't need to carry my wants with me. I don't need to carry my desires with me, I don't need to carry my fears with me. I carry my relationship inside of this yoke, and I'm sure David has some good stuff to say about that too.

David Gardner:

No, I think it's interesting. I spoke with somebody just this past week and they said man, yeah, I'd much rather the God of the New Testament than the God of the Old Testament.

Austin Gardner:

And he hasn't changed a bit, thinking that the God of the Old Testament than the God of the Old Testament, and he hasn't changed a bit.

David Gardner:

Thinking that the God of the Old Testament's a mean one. But then you know when you're looking at Exodus and Moses he says he wants to see his glory.

David Gardner:

You know he says I want you to see my glory, I want to see your glory, I want to see what you're like, want you to see my glory, I want to see your glory, I want to see what you're like. And the Lord passes by on Mount Sinai and Exodus 34 says and the Lord passed by before him and proclaimed and so, before I read the rest of the verse, it's God is declaring his own glory, god is declaring his own character. The first thing that Moses is going to see and the first thing that Moses is going to hear about, seeing God in his glory is the Lord, the Lord, god, merciful and gracious, long suffering and abundant and goodness and truth, keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that by no means, that will by no means clear the guilty visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. And it's just so interesting right that God in all his glory you know his glory that shines on Moses is so powerful that when Moses comes down, all his glory you know his glory that shines on Moses is so powerful that when Moses comes down off the hill. His face is literally shining. People have to cover his face to even speak to him and what he saw was the Lord.

David Gardner:

The Lord, god merciful, long-suffering, gracious, abundant in goodness and truth. He keeps mercy for thousands, but only visits the sin upon the third and fourth generation. And a lot of people want to look at it and go man, he visits the sin upon third and fourth generation. Well, that's if they continue in it, but even then in his mercy it's only the third and fourth.

Austin Gardner:

But he's mercy for the thousands. You know this. He doesn't just let sin slide, he comes and pays for it. He says I'm merciful and I just can't let sin go. So I'll come and die for it.

David Gardner:

He's merciful, but he's not unrighteous. In it there's still a payment for the sin. And so when you see in the Old Testament that Moses sees God's glory, what he sees first is the Lord, the Lord merciful, gracious, abundant, abundant and long-suffering and all these beautiful things about God. That's his glory. When he reveals himself, he doesn't say the Lord, the Lord holy, holy which he is. He is three times holy, he is holy and separate, for sure. But that's not what he reveals to Moses, you know. It doesn't say you know righteous, it doesn't say you know just. It says merciful, abundant. Those are the things that Moses walks away with.

Austin Gardner:

And the same thing here he's saying. In that passage Jesus says I want you to learn of me, and he self-describes himself as meek and lowly, humble Robert.

Robert Canfield:

In that passage, like two verses ahead of it or a couple of verses ahead of it, Jesus says I thank my father, the Lord of heaven, because I was hid those things from the prudent and wise. I was revealed them under the babes. Verse 26 says even so, the father, for it seemed good in thy sight, All things are delivered unto me of my father, and no man knoweth the son. No one knows the son, he says, except the father. But the father Neither knoweth any man, the father, father, but the father. Neither knoweth any man, the father, no one knows the father, except save the son. And he to whomsoever the son will reveal him. And so what Jesus was doing was in this, that passage he was giving. It was a revealing party of who God was, and he was just showing him this is, this is who I am. I'm coming to bring peace.

Austin Gardner:

I'm not bringing it. What's that? I know we you and I believe that, but the religious crowd, we don't believe that. We see God as austere and mean.

Robert Canfield:

I get kind of a bad attitude about the religious crowd, but then I got to know that I'm not their judge. They're not my servants, but I've been guilty of it myself. I have too. But people like to be noticed and people like to think that they have the answers, and people like to think that they have everything you need to do for your life and you need to come to me and I'll take care of you. And I got my list of rules to help you out. And what Jesus was declaring in that moment was is no, you guys need to learn of me. I've got the answers, I've got real peace.

Austin Gardner:

And I know the Father.

Robert Canfield:

That's what I'm revealing to you. I'm revealing to the Father, to you guys, and when you think about it, and I have a hard time whenever you sit down and you listen to preachers and they preach and they preach principles, and they preach and they teach all these different things and they never point back to Jesus.

Austin Gardner:

They don't mean to be, but they have become very man-centered.

Robert Canfield:

It's what you do, not what he did. It's humanistic I don't know if you could. It's man-centered humanism that's crept into our churches and, like the point of Christianity is, we are followers of Jesus but yet so many times he doesn't even get noticed and so many times is his character not even displayed or put on display. And like in every and this is maybe I'm just talking to preachers, but even in our conversation every time we should be just pointing back to Jesus. What's Jesus done in your life? Who's he? I mean, it's a sweet, like you said, it's a sweet relationship and it's a sweet sweetness and we're supposed to be talking about him and I don't know. I get kind of excited about that. But yeah, exactly what David was saying, how God revealed himself. It's right here in that passage he's like the Father's revealing it to me and then he says come unto me. So I think that's awesome, I think this is fantastic.

Austin Gardner:

I'm going to interrupt the conversation and start another podcast for tomorrow.

David Gardner:

I'd just like to finish saying isn't it interesting that Moses sees God on Sinai and he hears the Lord's words, and then Moses gets the testimony of being the meekest man of them all. Like he's meek, oh, that's a good point. So, moses' result of seeing God's glory is that encountering God's glory is meekness.

Austin Gardner:

And then Jesus says come to me learn from me.

David Gardner:

I'm meek.

Austin Gardner:

I know God and I'm meeker than anybody.

Chris Gardner:

So a very interesting thing is, this passage is the only passage in the Bible where Jesus describes His heart.

Austin Gardner:

So when you're I'm sure you checked that out. I didn't even think about that. Where Jesus describes his heart.

Chris Gardner:

I'm sure you checked that out. I did. I didn't even think about that. That's good. I read it and I was like there's no way and I started looking.

Robert Canfield:

It's the only passage in the Bible he says he's the shepherd, but he never talks about his character.

Chris Gardner:

He describes his heart.

Chris Gardner:

The only time he describes his heart, he says listen, let me tell you how I describe it. The only time he describes his heart, he says listen, let me tell you how I describe it. When I say describe, you know when you're doing something. When I go to school to pick up my son, I have to say, hey, I identify as Joshua's father. So when I walk into the schoolroom, they don't care that I'm a pastor, they don't care that I do wealth management, they don't care that I have businesses that I'm involved in. They don't care about any of that. They care about one thing I describe myself. And so when I describe myself in church on Sunday, I play the guitar, so I'm a musician for that morning. And so Paul does the same thing hey, in this book, I'm going to describe myself as this. He chooses what he describes himself as.

Chris Gardner:

Jesus in his three years says I want to describe myself one time. Jesus in his three years says I want to describe myself one time. And when I choose to describe myself, I'm going to describe myself as meek and lowly. And that is the posture that we are called to lead from. Do we have to do that? We have to lead from that, Nothing else but that, and what we have to understand is this, nothing else but that. And what we have to understand is this If you're not careful, as a pastor, as a Sunday school teacher, as a missionary, some of us are more committed to leading for God than learning from God. And it shows. And it shows. May those that look on us see in us that which Jesus described about his heart.

Robert Canfield:

So, going back to what you said, jesus has called himself the door. He's made descriptions of characteristics, but in this passage you get to crack open God and actually see the motive and the reasons behind who he is and what he's described himself. You get to find out the inner person. Yeah, that's what you're stating right here, because I can say it my name is Robert. I'm a husband, but there's a lot of deadbeat husbands. You know what I mean. Yeah, but Jesus was displaying in that passage this is who I am, I'm gentle. Yeah, but Jesus was like displaying in that passage this is who I am, I'm gentle.

Austin Gardner:

Yeah.

Robert Canfield:

I'm meek and I haven't elevated myself. My heart's not lifted up in pride for it. I mean, we know that he's exalted, he is the king of kings, but he was saying his heart is lowly. He's like he cares about the commoner, he cares about people. I want to bring you peace, and that's I mean when you were saying that, just like it's like. It's like a I don't know if it's epiphany or if that's the right word, but like you think about, god calls himself a lot of different things but this was actually displaying his, the intent, the heart behind everything.

Chris Gardner:

Yeah, and and Jesus, jesus modeled. Jesus modeled this. Jesus. His examples of Jesus teaching is he modeled it. He didn't stand up and go. Let me give you the best sermon you've ever heard on service. He said let me wash your feet. He told stories. He took wrapped deep, deep truths into these parables that people could relate to. He had proximity to them. He taught on the road. Jesus could have easily transfigured himself from one position to the other, to go to one place to the other, but he decided to teach on the road, in the boat, at the table, because learning was woven into his life. And so, even when Peter failed, jesus restored him before recommissioning him.

Chris Gardner:

We talk about Judas all the time when Jesus is washing feet. Did you know that? He says he was washing the disciples' feet? But there's only two people that are named by name the one that is going to turn him in to be killed and the one that is going to say he didn't recognize him. And he gives those two names. I believe that when he says Judas and Peter, when he does that, I think the author, I think the writer, I believe that God, through God, leading him to write what he wrote. What he was saying was remember the context around these two people.

Chris Gardner:

By the way, jesus is not going to be surprised at what Judas is going to do. Yet he sits on his knees in front of him. Why did he do it? Him serving him because he was meek and lowly. Think about this. Think about washing the feet of the disciples. I've got yeah. Think about washing the feet of the disciples. If he takes three minutes per foot minutes per foot that's 72 minutes of washing feet. If he takes one minute per foot, that's 24 minutes. That's a half an hour almost of him washing feet. Can you imagine he's sitting there washing, massaging, cleaning. Judas is looking down at him and he's looking up at Judas going. You're not going to surprise me, but I am meek and lowly and I love you, peter. You will deny me, let me wash your feet, buddy. And so you see that in him it's just, I mean, it's amazing. And he tells us in that same passage to.

Robert Canfield:

He says learn and take up that yoke, like, be in co-service, be in co-partnership, of doing this together with me. And so, like it goes back to our motives. It goes back to our heart of what we're doing while we're doing it, in the sense of like are we, are we do we have that meek and lowly hump. I mean like that, I don't see. I went back to a rule, right, but like I look at it and I'm like how can you see a God that does that? You know what I'm like. How can you see a God that does that? You know what I'm saying. How can you see a God who's that gentle, who's that great and wonderful, and how could that not make you want to be the same way?

Austin Gardner:

Well, I want to break here so we can record again for tomorrow, but before we do, and so we'll continue right on this. But I wanted to let David say this. David and I were talking the other day and he made the comment he said how can people get to know God more and more and become meaner and meaner? Do you remember that?

David Gardner:

Oh, yeah, well, we were speaking. You know specifically about one situation and you know I'm turning 40 this year and you know I feel like I'm just getting started in my Christian walk. I feel like there's so much that I've got to grow in. But I know that God's changed me. I'm a completely different man than I was five years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, and when I look at men of God quote unquote men of of God that are older than me, that have been around longer than me, and instead of them being softened through the years, instead of them being sweeter and kinder and more humble, they get meaner and meaner they get. They get harsher and harsher. Their their tone doesn't change. You know, and and I think a lot of times from young people we can expect that that there's a lot of fire but there's not a lot of gentleness. But the older we get, we find—.

Austin Gardner:

Because fire is what preaching is. Yeah and gentleness is not what we expect from a man of God.

David Gardner:

There's plenty of sons of thunder that want to call down fire from heaven to burn them. You know, the funny thing about the sons of thunder is that they had enough faith to call fire down from heaven, but just a chapter earlier they didn't have enough faith to get a demon out of a little boy. You know cause they, they, they have that meanness in them and and I don't understand. You know, if we're truly following Jesus and we are becoming more like him, then we're becoming more meek, more lowly, more humble, more accessible.

Austin Gardner:

If we abide Sweeter kinder If we hang around in him all the time.

David Gardner:

Yeah.

Austin Gardner:

If we rub elbows with him.

David Gardner:

Yeah, if we rub elbows with him, yeah. And so I don't know if people are just coming to the word and trying to find things to attack other people.

Austin Gardner:

I don't know. If people are coming to the word trying to grow in knowledge, let's give them the benefit that they love God, but maybe they're in a classroom and not in a relationship.

David Gardner:

Yeah, Well, that's what I'm saying. Maybe they're coming just for knowledge, maybe they're just coming to find the next rules to keep, but they're trying to follow Jesus' ways without being close to His heart.

Austin Gardner:

Well, I want to talk to you more about that, with all of us. We're just going to take a break. We're recording it now, but so that you don't have so much for one day, we'll be back tomorrow with more of this shared and invite some other people to come and be with us.

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Austin Gardner

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